Awal:Mẓab
Old text from Kabyle wiki: At Mẓab d iggen miden n yimazighen yellan dren d udem n tmurt yeqqaren-as aɣlan.
Agbur |
Old text to compare with the evolving Tamazight version:
Coordinates: 32°29′14″N 3°40′53″E / 32.48722°N 3.68139°E Talɣa:Infobox country
Mẓab, neɣ Aɣlan, d igget tmurt n tiniri ugafa, tus-ed agzmir n tɣerdayt di uwanek n Dzayer.
-{La ville de Taɣerdayt, chef-lieu administratif, sur l'Oued Mẓab, occupe une position centrale dans la moitié Nord du Mẓab et au cœur de la Chebka (in French "filet"), le plateau de Taɣerdayt. L'oued Mẓab traverse ce plateau rocheux du nord-ouest vers le sud-est. La ville est située à peu près sur le méridien de la capitale algérienne. L'annexe de Taɣerdayt qui couvre l'ensemble du pays appelé M'zab comprend non seulement la Chebka mais aussi les parcours sahariens avoisinants d'aspects plat ou faiblement ondulé qui s'inclinent à l'est vers la dépression d'Ouargla, et à l'ouest vers le Grand Erg Occidental.
À l'origine le Mzab était un ensemble de 5 oasis de 72km² :
- Taɣerdayt (s taɛrabt غرداية [Ɣerdaya]) (Ghardaïa)
- At Izǧen (s taɛrabt بني يزڨن [Beni Isgen]) (Beni-Isguen)
- Tajnint (El-Ateuf)
- At Mlicet (s taɛrabt مليكة [Melika]) (Mélika)
- At Bunur (Bou Noura)
et de deux oasis isolés plus au nord :
The population includes the At Mẓab}-. At Mẓab d iggen midden si imaziɣen, llan zedɣen tamuṛt as-qqaren "aɣlan". They speak Tamaziɣt Tumẓabt.
-{À partir du Xe siècle, après la chute de leur empire Rostémide et soucieux de laisser une distance dissuasive avec leurs détracteurs fatimides, les survivants de la famille royale guidèrent leurs citoyens dans la région inhospitalière de la Chebka, où ils entamèrent la construction de leurs villes fortifiées. Mêlés aux populations berbères présentes, ces premiers habitants du Mzab s'appelèrent les Béni Mẓab}-.
Ẓer ula
Le Mẓab est une région du nord saharien, située dans la wilaya de Ɣerdaya
Text
Mẓab, neɣ Aɣlan, d igget tmurt n tiniri ugafa, tus-d agzmir(1) n Taɣerdayt di uwanek n Dzayer. Zedɣen-t At Mẓab neɣ At Iɣersan, illan si Imaziɣen Izennaten(2) n Tefriqt Ugafa.
Tamdint, neɣ aɣrem n Taɣerdayt, illan d tamelɣiɣt tadeblant(3) n Mẓab, tella tus-d fidis n tesreṭ n jar Tiliwin(4) iɛeggben f tmelɣiɣt tadzayrit, ammas n wezǧen agafa n weɣlan, deg wul n tecbit iman-s. Isem "Ticbit" neɣ "Ccebket" yettwawec as ula i tmurt n weḍɣa illan tegzi al iɣess s banẓa n iɣezran ixewḍen, an weɣlan… axu ayen iṭṭfen di Taɣerdayt si tmura tiḍiḍentin n ugezmir, wiǧi di-sent akan ticbit : Ad naf dex tisila d Ṛgug, titula d tmetlin.. day amaɣer ticbit n iɣezran tiwi tačurt ɣefsent ayyulunet. Iɣzer n Mẓab yeccat abrid-s di tasili n weɣlan si tma taḍehrawit al tma taqeblit.
(1) From what I found "agzmir / agezmir" is a type of plant. I don't know what he meant with it here.
(2) "Izennaten"? or is it "Iznaten" ?
(3) "Ammas adeblan" (administrative center) is better.
(4) Toponym? tesreṭ n jar Tiliwin - coinage for 'meridian' - see author's notes. Anderssakoul 17:09, 22 Wamber 2011 (UTC)
I believe the use of dashes (-) between words should be economical and should be restricted to linking prepositions or particles, with adverbs (like ɣef-sen: on them), and to linking verbs or nouns with single letters / prepositions (like yeffeɣ-d: he came out). In other cases we can just use spaces. This makes the texts easily legible.
So we should always write: di-sent, ɣef-sen, ɣer-s ...etc. Stable, easily readable, and it makes sense.
Also "iman-es" and "tus-ed" could better be written as: "iman-s" and "tus-d". The dash already indicates the distinction between the two parts.
When we have double-letter particles like "as" or even bigger ones like "asen" and "asent" (like "yettwawc-as", "yettwawc-asen", "yettwawc-asent": given to him/given to them) it's better to stay true to the original grammatical logic and write it [yettwawec as, yettwawec asen, yettwawec asent] for stability, consistency, and legibility. So it's better to write phonologically and not phonetically, as much as we can [especially when it is about grammar and not vocabulary].
--Aryaz 19:52, 18 Wamber 2011 (UTC)
For the author's notes, see the discussion section for the original text stored at Mẓab/Tumẓabt Agzmir is 'Wilaya' - but I found most often 'tawilayt' on the Internet, plus 'Agezdu'. Can tamanaɣt be used in a more local sense than national capital?
Kabyle has rules for dashes between morphemes - I have to dig out a reference to compare with what you've written. Will use your text version as first cut.
Tafriqt n ugafa? Tafriqt n Ugafa? Tafriqt Ugafa? Which is better? Are there any written guidelines? And tiniri ugafa is meant as a specific region or general statement? With or without 'n'?
tamdint n Dzayer or tamdint tamanaɣt (Dzayer or Lzzayer or Lezzayer?) instead of 'f tmelɣiɣt tadzayrit'? How best to refer to Algiers the capital here? I favour Lezzayer Tamanaɣt or Dzayer Tamanaɣt.
Izenaten or Iznaten or Izennaten? Good question...
Anderssakoul 16:37, 22 Wamber 2011 (UTC)
acnu or axik? Aɣlan or aɣlan? I think Aɣlan since it refers to Ghardaia, not a nation in the abstract - or does it? uwanek or tegduda? tamelɣiɣt/tamanaɣt/tazuẓẓent izerzeḥen?wiǧi other forms? - Anderssakoul
bbunneḍen
In Rifian I found the base verb 'nneḍ' for 'fold'. So I thought 'bb' must be a derivative prefix. Since b and m often swap in Tumzabt, I guessed the pan-Berber reciprocal 'm'. Maybe it's an additional 'w' for passive that gives the 'u', i.e. a form of mwenneḍ, but anyway I found munneḍ in Madi's dictionary, with the same meaning as Tumzabt bbunneḍ. OK if we use munneḍ in the text ( in context 'iɣezran xewḍen munneḍen'? )
History and geography
Have found some good info in Delheure's Tumzabt dictionary.
Tiniri
"Mẓab d igget tmurt[1] n tiniri ugafa"
Why shouldn't we say "n tniri" (put "tiniri" in the construct state).
Although nouns in the form of "tiC1iC2i" are rare, however, judging from the documented word "tiziri" (moonlight), the construct state should of words of this structure would be "tC1iC2i". Therefore, we should write "tniri" (n tniri n ugafa).
- In Bouamara's Kabyle-Kabyle dictionary, the construct state is given
as 'tniri'. Shall we go with that for the moment?
Live in / inhabit
Zedɣen-tt is very possible and understandable, but we mostly say in the Rif "nitni zeddɣen day-s." (they live in it).
Desert / Sahara
"Taneẓruft" is your (Algerian) word for "desert". "Tiniri" is more "outside, uninhabited land". There is half a dozen of other words for "desert, wasteland" in Chafik's dictionary.
Place/side/edge
"Tama" means "edge" in the Rif. We use "aɣezdis" for side (usually used for the human body's left or right side but also we apply it for a car, a room....etc)
Town/fort/village
"Tamdint / iɣrem / aɣarsu" could all mean: city, town, major town, large village...etc. Tiɣremt is : village, little town.
Rock countable/uncountable
Aḍɣaɣ is unknown in the Rif. We use "aẓṛu" for "rock". We use "taṣḍart" (plu: tiṣuḍar) for "gigantic rock".
Republic
Tagduda is the only known neologism or word for "republic". But Aydud / Agdud are used as "public, crowd".
